CAS TG Meeting Land Run 2024 Tuesday, Oct. 8, 2024 4:30PM
In attendance: CAS Territorial Governors: 89 (61 in person, 28 via Zoom) SASS: Misty Moonshine & Ruby Ruthless SASS Advisory Board: 3 CAS ROC: 1 (via Zoom) CAS RO Instructors: 2
Meeting Notes Welcome – Deuce Stevens, ROC was still “on the road” and didn’t make it in time, so Misty Moonshine led the meeting.
Structured Annual Agenda – of discussion items/potential voting items will be provided in January of each year for TGs to use and reference for any/all TG meetings they attend. SASS and the CAS ROC will spearhead the TG meeting at National and World events. In the event the annual agenda may need to have additional items added to it after EOT, changes will be communicated to all TGs and an updated agenda will be distributed. TGs will have the bulk of the year to have conversations with their clubs and shooters at various events, poll and conversate with shooters at their local club they represent and be prepared to vote when the voting period commences. There will be no “surprise agenda items”, and all TGs should be ready to vote on the items when the voting period begins. (Late October- Mid November each year) Everyone in attendance agreed that this would be beneficial.
Structured meeting minutes submission template – to ensure the consistency of minutes submitted from various TG meetings, SASS will provide a standard meeting minutes submission template along with the agenda items each year in January. This form should be used to submit meeting minutes directly to SASS. Additional discussion about offering both an online minutes submission form and a printable form for use. Meeting minutes should be submitted in a timely manner so that the information can be shared as quickly and efficiently as possible. Once received, SASS will post in the TG Wire Forum for review and further discussion. Everyone in attendance agreed this would be beneficial.
RO Training Course materials– 2025 RO Course structure changes- A redesign and streamlining concept of SASS RO Courses (for both CAS and WBAS) is in production and will go into effect January 2025. There will be a singular SASS Basic Safety Course- one that covers all the SASS Safety covenants and information that is common to both disciplines, then- a separate training module for WBAS, and a separate training module for CAS. This concept will streamline the training process, reduce the demand on time, ensure the basic safety covenants are presented with consistency, make refresher courses more succinct, and ease the burden of administration when it comes time for updates. All comments from those in attendance were in favor of this change, and no potential roadblocks were identified.
RO Instructor certification period – Misty proposed the notion of extending the RO Instructor certification period from 2 years to 5 years. Everyone in attendance were in favor of this change.
Regional marketing proposal – affiliated clubs – Misty presented a marketing program idea to gauge potential interest. SASS HQ itself currently exhibits at two consumer-based shows/exhibits annually- the Great American Outdoor Show in PA and the NRA Annual meetings and exhibits. There are hundreds of additional shows and exhibits that occur annually across the US. Unfortunately, HQ simply does not have the manpower or budget to travel across the country to reap the promotional benefits and exposure these shows could offer. Alternatively, the SASS Affiliated clubs in those areas could be enlisted and empowered, supported, provided the tools and resources to attend these shows to represent SASS. SASS would cultivate and promote a SASS-led and SASS-funded promotional program for SASS affiliated clubs by:
- organizing, through assistance with TGs/Clubs in each state/region, a list of possible exhibit opportunities (ie: Outdoor shows, gun shows, sportsman’s expos, etc.).
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reaching out to the local clubs asking for information/referrals on shows in their region that they may be interested in attending to represent SASS and their club.
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Set an annual budget for at least one, if not two shows per region each year. (Not including GAOS or NRA)
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paying the exhibit/table/vending fee if applicable directly to the venue/organizers and providing all needed promotional materials such as tablecloths, brochures, banners, etc.
The club provides the manpower. SASS will extend the Club referral program incentive to any club that solicits new memberships because of the clubs efforts at the exhibit/show. Standardized post event reports would be required. All in attendance agreed that this was a viable program and were sure the clubs would be on board.
*Artemis Von Shutz, TG – MO – asked if we have the materials now, if SASS would provide promotional materials to clubs now for any upcoming gun shows to promote. Misty confirmed and further clarified that even outside of this proposed program, SASS will always provide affiliated clubs with the resources and promotional materials to set up and promote SASS. Just reach out to SASS directly- Ruby or Misty will get you what you need.
.22 Caliber shooting category – Misty presented that this topic came up at a recent Regional TG meeting, asking that SASS consider adding a .22 caliber shooting category. Misty explained that the blessing for this had already been given back in 2017/2018 at a TG Meeting at Winter Range. This is an example of information falling through the cracks and minutes not being posted and shared to ensure things discussed reach all TGs and clubs across the country. This item will be added to the 2025 TG Agenda of discussion items to ensure all clubs are made aware of the past discussion and the blessing given for clubs to offer a 22-caliber category at the local club level. Any traction for an official 22 caliber category in SASS sanctioned matches would come from a grassroots movement down the road.
Discussion (Wire Forum topic – Hoss) re: “Minor Safety” Topic: Removal of the term “Minor”, not removing the penalty, but reclassifying said penalties. Common stances are “How can a safety infraction be “minor’?”- Suggestion to make a verbiage change only by removing “minor” and just call them a “Safety violation” and a “Major Safety Violation”? Discussion and opinions on this topic were generally against any change to the current penalty or its verbiage. Some comments varied for/against and included: – Just make the word/verbiage change, drop the “minor” – Against the change- changing the word wouldn’t make a difference – the verbiage is entrenched in our vocabulary – Already in scoring as Minor/Major – No need to make it harder on TOs to make calls – Change to a Procedural designation o This would be a house of cards because you can only get one P per stage Misty Moonshine stated that perhaps what is needed is a re-focus on the understanding of the terms minor/major as it relates to the penalty, not the safety. Both are safety violations. One of them carries a minor penalty, the other a major penalty. Marshal Stone, TG – AK – stated another viewpoint is that one infraction carries a minor penalty because the action or inaction poses no threat of someone getting hurt. The other carries a major penalty because the action or inaction poses a threat of someone getting hurt. In general, the majority of those in attendance were opposed to this being changed.
Discussion (Wire Forum topic – Hoss) re: Remove the “slip & fall” long gun rule– Too much subjectivity, Empty long gun hits the ground it’s a SDQ. Lassiter – RO Instructor – stated he is in favor of any change that removes any grey area. The term is subjective as it stands. Whiskey Kid – TG, TX- agreed and stated that the grey area is in the wording “comes to rest” then falls is impossible. Physics dictates an object that has “come to rest” cannot be moved unless physically moved. Roy’s Creek Dan- TG, OK – stated agreement with the exception of prop failure A few variations of the verbiage was presented, and a little more than half of those in attendance in an informal “show of hands” poll supported the change. This will move into the ROC for verbiage purposes and then onto the 2025 agenda/discussion items.
Discussion (Wire Forum topic – Montie Montana) re: Loading & Unloading Conventions P. 22 SHB – suggestion to add additional narrative and situational clarifications to increase objectivity and decrease subjective interpretation. Montie Montana, TG (via Zoom) spoke on this topic as he is the one who brought it up on the Wire as a discussion topic. There was some difficulty following the presentation from those in person. Randy St. Eagle, TG, commented that it is spelled out pretty clear, the definition of the firing line is clear. General consensus/response from the room was that we didn’t need to add another paragraph for clarification. Montie Montana countered stating that not everyone has experienced shooters at their club and for local clubs it can be confusing as to what the ruling is. Misty Moonshine suggested that this is another example of information (with more details) that can be included in the SASS basic safety course that will be a resource for everyone.
Additional topic presented for discussion: Randy St. Eagle, TG – presented another topic that has/had been on the Wire Forums recently that may or may not continue to come up: going to the unloading table and the shotgun closes. (Double) Many are saying, its fine- just keep moving and get to the unloading table. Others say that they moved with a closed shotgun = penalty. Does this need to be addressed? Or the penalty removed/changed for if a shotgun closes either enroute to the unloading table? General consensus in the room was no. Leave it as is. Post meeting note: At the conclusion of the meeting, Whiskey Kid, TG, spoke to Misty Moonshine on this topic. This does need further discussion and consideration- the unloading table is one situation, but the loading table is another. What if a shooter, called to the line from the loading table- loaded rifle in one hand, open empty shotgun in the other… enroute to the shooting line to stage their guns, the shotgun closes. Wouldn’t it be safer to get to the line and put the (loaded) rifle down safely, then open the shotgun back up to stage it – rather than holding a loaded firearm (the rifle) in one hand and fumbling to try and re-open the shotgun while standing still before taking another step?
No other items were presented for discussion. Meeting adjourned at 5:07PM CST.
